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Breaking God's Law - The Life and Thoughts of Zach

Dec. 13th, 2003

12:25 am - Breaking God's Law

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I just looked up the 10 commandments because I realized that I didn't really know what they are. I'm so going out and making myself some carved images of things in the water that is under the earth. Then everyone will think I'm a real serious bad-ass.

I just have to figure out what is in the water under the earth besides toxic runoff and maybe some silt. That kind of stuff is hard to make carved images of.

Comments:

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From:hope_persists
Date:December 12th, 2003 10:35 pm (UTC)
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when it says: "remember the Sabbath day and make it holy"- since it is the Old Testament, doesn't that refer to Saturday (the Jews' Sabbath)? Wouldn't that mean that all the people who consider Sabbath on Sunday be disobeying?
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From:zarfmouse
Date:December 12th, 2003 11:10 pm (UTC)
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Well the important thing to remember about all this ten commandments hubbub is that the Old Testament is part of the old covenant with God. Before our man JC came down and set things straight with the lord for everyone, the way to please God was to be kosher and follow all kinds of special laws, including most of all the 10 Commandments. Jesus brought a newer much more simple covenant which completely replaced the old one. The new one is basically just to love god and jesus and repent for sins or something like that.

Or so I've been lead to believe. So really the 10 Commandments have very little to do with Christian morality except in the cases where they've been reaffirmed by something in the New Testament. Or so I've been lead to believe.

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From:desert_fox
Date:December 13th, 2003 02:12 am (UTC)
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In essence, that would make Jesus the precursor to Martin Luther as one of the first Protestants, protesting Judaism for what would be called Christianity. He even had the son of god thing going for him.

We live in a country that is heavily Christian, Protestant or otherwise. Just think of how many sects there are. Can't we do better than a two-party system? Why is there more religious freedom/availability of choice than political? I know we're working on it. Would the third parties then be considered Protestants of the two-party system?
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From:zarfmouse
Date:December 13th, 2003 10:52 am (UTC)
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It's all about the schizms.
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From:desert_fox
Date:December 14th, 2003 05:20 pm (UTC)
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One can't forget the "Great Schism", the creation of the Anglican Church. Then there's the People's Front of Judeah. ;)
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From:zarfmouse
Date:December 14th, 2003 05:28 pm (UTC)
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The People's Front of Judeah was really a minor footnote to history compared to the Judean Peoples' Front.
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From:desert_fox
Date:December 14th, 2003 05:50 pm (UTC)

Wolf Nipple Chips...

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Blasphemous Hogwash! Repent and be saved, splitter!
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From:(Anonymous)
Date:March 11th, 2004 02:30 am (UTC)
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So only the 4th commandment was obliterated? Jesus observed the seventh day sabbath as did the early christians and many christians continued to do so up till now. It was the Jewish ceremonial law, not the ten commandments, that were nailed to the cross. Catholic authorities readily acknowledge it was they who changed the sabbath to sunday for political experiency in coopting pagans. Protestants forgot to question that bit of catholic tradition and have maintained it ever since. Instead of correcting the error the great majority of people and theologians make tortured arguments to excuse or explain it.
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From:mathuaerknedam
Date:December 12th, 2003 11:19 pm (UTC)
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I would think so, if they are under Old Testament Jewish law.
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From:mathuaerknedam
Date:December 13th, 2003 02:22 am (UTC)
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Then again, I don't know if the Jewish law specified that Saturday was the sabbath, or if that was just tradition.
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From:nomadwolf
Date:December 13th, 2003 02:42 am (UTC)
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I don't quite know what it's specified as in the Torah, but it likely says on the 7th day, or every 7 days, or something like that. And since the pattern had already been set whenever the whole Sunday, Monday, etc... came to be, I'd say it's Saturday. So, in a strict interpretation, I'm sure they're sinning, but I say, as long as it's every 7 days, it's good enough... then again, I'm a reform Jew, and I doubt half the orthodoxy think I'm a Jew at all. ;)

Within Temptation -- Mother Earth -- Mother Earth
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From:zarfmouse
Date:December 13th, 2003 10:56 am (UTC)
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Heh. Any idea what this carved images thing is all about. Does this water under the earth stuff mean no carved images of fish, or no carved images of mythical demon beasts living in the ground water? Is it ok to mold or cast such things rather than carving them?

I assume this is a precursor to "no false idols" but it extends to "no images of god or angels or devils or any such stuff either".
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From:mathuaerknedam
Date:December 13th, 2003 11:55 pm (UTC)
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Here is the text as translated in the NASB. NASB is, as I understand it, widely regarded to be the most accurate word-for-word translation (as opposed to by phrase, by thought, etc). Of course, this probably doesn't actually answer any questions, just rephrase them...


3 ""You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 ""You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

5 ""You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

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From:nomadwolf
Date:December 14th, 2003 02:36 pm (UTC)
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I think the water under the earth is a mis-translation or a typo or something.

The commandment is not to make any idols, that's pretty much it.
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From:boannan
Date:December 14th, 2003 04:48 pm (UTC)
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Is it ok to mold or cast such things rather than carving them?

***

I don't think you can apply the principles of statutory construction to the ten commandments (or at least, the penalties are a lot harsher! ha!)

My guess about the "water under the earth" thing is that it's a "Great Chain of Being" analogy: The sky is higher than the earth, the earth is higher than the water, etc. So hence "water under the earth".
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From:zarfmouse
Date:December 14th, 2003 05:48 pm (UTC)
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Ah smart. I didn't know about that particular heirarchy. Thanks.
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From:nomadwolf
Date:December 15th, 2003 05:29 am (UTC)
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You'd have to carve the mold, yes? Is carving the negative of an image equivalent to carving the image? dunno.
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From:boannan
Date:December 15th, 2003 10:32 am (UTC)
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I guess my point is you wouldn't want to be saying to the Big Guy,

"Well see, I _molded_ it. Didn't carve it. Nothing in your Ten Commandments about molding!" given the fact that he can cast you into the fiery pits of hell. ;)
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From:marezcharz
Date:December 13th, 2003 12:42 pm (UTC)
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That Sabbath thing. My roommie observes this. His 'church' is to hit all the gay bars in the area. I like his church - it's fun.

My 'Sabbath' is aka 'Mary-Time' which is normally scheduled for Sundays but can be on any day when I need to de-tox from people (all people - even ones I like).

Can I covet my neighbor's donkey's droppings?
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